work for 30 years and then when your visa expires you are asked to
return to India or migrate to Australia, Canada or New Zealand. No
status in Dubai. You are looked at as just a leech, which sucked on
the blood, and saved the lazy citizens from doing the dirty work. Now
your time is up, so FO back to where you come from.This is your status
in Dubai.
Those punks have clubs where they say 'members only' and let white
janitors pass by, but will block the Indian manager.
Franky, take it from me. This is the final warning to Dubai residents.
If you do not bail your money out of this desert hole - you will be a
refugee in India within six months. The Kuwaiti Indians at least got
their monies back, but all you will have is a state-sponsored
suitcase.'
Regards
Ray
On 11/29/09, FLOYD JOHNY LEWIS <fjl24@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi KK's
>
> I guess its for the readers to decide.
>
> I am a trend follower.
>
> My intentions are to make money irrespective of the direction of the
> markets.
>
> The impact of Dubai news on the markets helped many trend traders to trade
> short as well as long on nifty futures on Friday itself.
>
> A cool approx 150 plus odd points intraday for those who traded both ways.
>
> Such opportunities do not come daily.
>
> Forget the noise & Enjoy the sweet profits.
>
> Do not be distracted with all these sort of funny emails even if it comes
> from my end.
>
> See what your systems and methods tell you.
>
> Believe in yourself.
>
> If possible try and trade in instruments which will allow you to trade both
> ways - long and short and if not nimble enjoy the money earned during
> trading ranges.
>
> Above views for intraday and swing trades only.
>
> Regards
> Floyd
>
>
> --- On Sat, 11/28/09, kk s <kumar40@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: kk s <kumar40@hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: [Technical-Investor] Dubai Default - Dear TI Members - Kindly
> read all the sequence of emails things will be more clearer
> To: technical-investor@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, November 28, 2009, 11:49 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> what is the conclusion floyd???
>
> Kumar
>
>
>
> To: Technical-Investor@ yahoogroups. com
> From: fjl24@yahoo. com
> Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2009 19:18:07 -0800
> Subject: [Technical-Investor ] Dubai Default - Dear TI Members - Kindly read
> all the sequence of emails things will be more clearer
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Members of TI
>
> Have received an email from Shabir Ahmed from Dubai - I guess he is known to
> GV on our forum. The concerned person has used someone elses email id to
> forward me the below email - do not know the reasons for the same. I guess i
> have hurt his sentiments in some or the other matter.
>
> I was thinking of replying to him but then decided not to as my intentions
> are not to prove any point but to state the pure facts.
>
> It would have been nice if he had forwarded the below post to the group
> as members have the right to be aware of all views that are expressed on
> this forum for taking the right decisions. But i guess he is not a member of
> TI.
>
> Firstly, let me assure you all that i have not been exiled from Dubai.
>
> Neither was my previous post made with any vested interests or with the
> objectives of tarnishing the image of Dubai.
>
> I apologize to all members on this group if my email hurt anyone of you in
> any manner. as no puns intended.
>
> I still do have interests in Dubai - having said that will not change my
> honest views expressed in my previous post.
>
> I am not comparing Dubai with India - Thank God Dubai is Dubai and India is
> India.
>
> I definitely enjoyed the infrastructure of Dubai and they are of world class
> standards - but is Dubai even as big as Mumbai in landscape and population ?
>
> All dynamics end here. We need to compare apples with apples.
>
> Also, my write up was not based on any emotions. I just shared an open
> secret.
>
> Having said that I anyway believe it is for our analysts and readers on this
> group to join the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle and arrive at their own
> conclusions.
>
> I definitely did forget to mention in my previous post that amongst the top
> businessmen in Dubai many are Indians and quite a few Indian businessmen are
> doing extremely well but let us look at the bigger picture - what is the
> percentage of such people doing well - this is a worldwide phenomena - 80-20
> parito concept.
>
> I will rest my case here as the intention of my current mail is neither to
> hit back nor to prove a point as the objective of all our discussions is to
> understand the impact of all macro economics and geopolitical factors that
> would affect our investments and trading here and anywhere in the world.
>
> By the way - Thank you Dubai - Am long on Nifty Futures since that V
> recovery took place on Friday afternoon post 1.30 pm - All eyes focused on
> the Asian Markets for vital clues on Monday - will watch the opening 5 to 10
> minutes for vital clues on whether to hold or sell my existing positions on
> the Nifty Futures.
>
> Regards
>
> Floyd
>
>
>
> --- On Sat, 11/28/09, Lloyd Power Systems LLC <acotechuae@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
>
>
> From: Lloyd Power Systems LLC <acotechuae@yahoo. com>
> Subject: RE: Dubai Default
> To: gcesalem_alumnis_ in_gcc@yahoogrou ps.com
> Cc: fjl24@yahoo. com, bees2365@yahoo. co.in, bgvmohan@airtelmail .in
> Date: Saturday, November 28, 2009, 8:12 PM
>
>
>
>
> Dear Shabir and friends,
>
> I could not resist defending Dubai to Floyd. Please see my reply in red
> text.
>
>
>
> 1. Net importer of oil - so cannot sell oil. Oil prices effect Dubai itself
> - what an irony.
>
> True. It is not now, it is since 1982 Dubai does not export oil. It is not
> an irony. To be frank, when Shaikh Maktoum visited Singapore , he visualized
> Dubai as a port country to boost the economy not as an oil rich country. He
> knows the domestic resources very well. He cleverly managed with what he
> could do with the geographical location of Dubai in Middle East .
>
>
>
> 2. Was solely dependent on Tourism - any terrorist attacks in the
> neighbourhood meant chaos. Especially situation of Iran - just opposite to
> Dubai .
>
>
>
> What is terrorism in Dubai ? When Twin Towers were attacked, did America
> bomb on Dubai ? Where was the reaction? Did the economy fall? Real fact is,
> when there was war in Kuwait in 1991, all Kuwaitis flew to Dubai for safe
> sheltering. There has been reactions several other countries on different
> issues relating to other issues (as an example the Danish Cartoon on
> Prophet Mohammed). Did any one see any reaction in Dubai ? When Babri Masjid
> was demolished, there was no reaction in Dubai . Talking about Iran , I have
> seen Iranians visiting Dubai on tourism and doing business in Dubai . There
> has been no chaotic situation so far. Even when the powerful earth quake
> has struck in 2005, the Iranians managed themselves, not overloaded the tiny
> Dubai .
>
>
>
>
>
> 3. Was a hype created by the excellent marketing skills of HE Sheikh
> Mohammed.
>
>
>
> There was no hype by HE. He had a vision on Dubai . He did it. It is not HE
> who started the construction companies in Dubai and hiked the prices at
> Tokyo and Bombay levels. He has allowed every one to make money. The economy
> has risen due to heavy constructions in Dubai . In fact he set himself as a
> example for other countries like Qatar , Bahrain and Kuwait to follow his
> foot prints.
>
>
>
> 4. Fully dependent on Abu Dhabi the capital of UAE for funds - Abu Dhabi is
> a net exporter of Oil.
>
> Bull shit – Abu Dhabi was jealous on Dubai on the boom. It tried to copy
> many of the projects like 7 star hotel, man made Island etc. Abu Dhabi can
> never catch up the speed and the intelligence of Dubai because of their
> cautious and conservative spending.
>
>
>
> 5. Had opened up freehold land 4-5 years back for outsiders because of
> shortage of funds.
>
> Again, it is a wrong way of interpreting after a small set back. It is to be
> states as ' Dubai has attracted all intelligent business people to set up
> their business with their own funds'. Please remember, Jebel Ali Free Zone
> has more than 20000 companies, who need not even show any accounts to the
> Government. I had one company in JAFZA, and no one has ever asked me to
> fund for Government of Dubai.
>
>
>
> 6. The stock markets are not well regulated - highly rigged - same a what
> once used to be the position in the BSE long time back.
>
> For such a small country, with a listing of about 15 major companies do not
> expect stability like Dow Jones or Nasdaq. Even the whole BSE, who has a
> long list of companies, collapses to 2%-20% in less than 2 minutes of
> statement from Government of Dubai, based on only two banks, ICICI and HDFC
> companies. Stocks are volatile and highly reactive to any situation. I can
> soar high when there is election result, it can drop down if there is an
> earth quake. It sneezes when Pak border faces troupe movements. Markets do
> not reflect the developments of any country. It is like judging Indian
> economy, based on the sales volume of petty shop at your street corner.
>
>
>
> 7. Had opened up investments in the stock markets to all - due to shortage
> of internal resources to finance business.
>
> Dubai Stock players are very limited. I had seen in the trade center, on an
> active day there is no more then 25 people quoting the stocks. Dubai stocks
> are turned in volume by the big shots. Not like Mumbai, not like in
> Ahmedabad, every individual personally holding some stocks, Dubai has only
> limited minor players. There is nothing called internal resources and
> financing by Dubai . Please note there is no shortage of Government funded
> projects in DEWA or Durail.
>
>
>
> 8. All information is rigged and censored - even now we do not have actual
> figures.
>
>
>
> Dubai is a fantastic open Government with e-governance system. You can dig
> any info from system. It is like India , common man can not penetrate to
> reserve bank and peep into what is happening on finance in Dubai . Can Floyd
> do so in India/America and England ?
>
>
>
> 9. Dubai had defaulted on the debts last year itself but was bailed out by
> Abu Dhabi - temporarily against sale of property in Dubai .
>
>
>
> That is a honest bail out strategy. Dubai sold its properties during
> critical time. An owner can sell his legitimate property when he needs
> money. It is an honest attempt by the Rulers. Where as America has begged EU
> and got 79 B$ as bail out fund. Who is good? Begger or Manager?
>
>
>
> 10. The debts are more than the GDP of Dubai.
>
>
>
> Same like what is India and Pakistan or America or England . Remember,
> every citizen in other countries are responsible for the debt on head
> count. Where as in Dubai due to non existence of permanent residence, there
> is no dept on individual head count. Though there is a debt for Government
> of Dubai, as a Dubai resident, you carry only Indian Debt on your head not
> Dubai debt.
>
>
>
> 11. Major banks that would be effected are local and MNC - none of the
> Indian banks would be affected as not allowed to operate directly from dubai
> .
>
>
>
> Direct operating banks of India in Dubai : Bank of Baroda, ICICI.
>
> Indirect operating banks, State Bank, HDFC, Axis Bank,
>
>
>
> Above banks are except SBI & BB are funding banks. They do not take
> deposits. They have always surplus money from many accounts and many ways.
> Did any one see campaign for Deposit mobilization by ICICI or HDFC or Axis
> Bank? Did any one know how the funds for advances and loans come from, to
> these banks? Since they are listed in BSE, it contributes a lot to the
> fluctuation of stock markets.
>
>
>
> Please remember, our former Finance Minister Chidambaram has bailed out
> Citi Bank last year when it had a crisis. Is the failure of Citi bank a
> mistake of Indian Government? Why should Governemnt bail out a private bank,
> who has not collected any deposit but the assets are so heavy? Why should a
> sneeze in America affect the Citi bank in India ? Is it a contributing bank
> for the development of India or growth of India ?
>
>
>
> 12. Yes there will be job losses - Asians would be major suffers.
>
> In any way it was the same case in India for the last 25 years except
> couple of recent years. Every one chose to take a high pay job in Gulf where
> back home there was no opportunity. In case you lose job in India , would
> you keep cursing the Government or would you look for another job? Which one
> Floyd?
>
>
>
> 13. Benefits of Dubai were more reaped by Pakistan and thus they would be
> more effected than India .
>
> Non-sense. This is a meaningless statement. Dubai does not fund Pakistan for
> growing pappy seeds in Afghanistan or buying arms to fight at Kashmir
> Border. The poor Pakistanis in Dubai , not like Srilankan Tamils outside
> Lanka, do not fund for military build up against India . All we have seen
> in Dubai near the creek, is the rich Sindhi textile wholesale merchant,
> cream of Indian business owners from Kerala and Tamil Nadu, rich IT sector
> Mumbai Indian owners in Internet City and JAFZA, compared to the poor hand
> cart towing Pakistani in Dubai Creek or Taxi drivers from Peshawar.
>
>
>
> 14. Yes India used to export items for consumption of Indians in Dubai more
> than for consumption of Goras over there.
>
> I do not understand this statement. Indians are expected to eat Idly, vada
> where ever they are. That needs an import of Rice, dal, gingili, or mirch
> in Dubai . So what is Floyd driving to say? Dubai imports from India is
> about 2B$ which is the highest import from any single country. Let us be
> grateful to the Government of Dubai for magnanimously allowing the trading.
>
>
>
> 15. Major source of imports were from China .
>
> Wrong. Major source of import for Dubai is Thailand for food and Europe
> for machinery and equipment. Floyd neither understood Dubai , nor India and
> of course one more, China now. I have the customs import records. I can send
> that as evidence.
>
>
>
> 16. Inflow of forex from Dubai can impact India for sure.
>
> It is always the case. Do you mean the flow of money will be reduced? If so,
> yes. It will be always the case what ever the country it is. If the country
> is not doing fine you do not expect its people to save.
>
>
>
> Fact is, let us understand if India depends on the salary -transfers of
> individuals from outside the country or does is have a strong plan to export
> the domestic products and earn the dollars ? Non producing states like
> Kerala which is fully dependant on the outside money would be affected to a
> little extent. But the Federal Government of India would look at
> deficiencies equally with other states like Maharashtra or Gujarat or Tamil
> Nadu and balance it, because Federal Government knows Kerala should be
> supported by it, not outsiders, to keep the sovereignty and integrity of
> its member states.
>
>
>
> To summarize, Floyd need not worry about Dubai Economy. Already corrections
> are going on. It is a strategy to postpone the payment for couple of
> months. This is one of the corrective actions by the Government of
> Dubai, not leading towards bankruptcy. Dubai will pick up soon and have its
> position flying high in the sky.
>
>
>
> I love Dubai equal to India . I have lived there and living there. I can
> realize how it is giving the citizens, compared to other countries.
>
>
>
> Look at some factors compared to other countries.
>
>
>
> 1. a. It takes 15 -45 days to get a
> Schengen Visa to Europe or UK with so much of formalities. Where as you
> need just 25 minutes to obtain a visit visa for Dubai .
>
> 2. b. The food costs as minimum as
> ten $ or 5 BP or 5 Euros. With 5 Dh, which is 1/5 you can buy a food in
> Dubai
>
> 3. c. Taxi fares are high in other
> countries. In USA, from New York Penn Station to New Jersy city (4 km) the
> taxi driver charged me 85$. In UK from Heathrow Airport to London city BP 75
> is the listed fare. In Europe , you do not find a road side taxi.
>
> 4. d. You get best of the best in
> Dubai from all countries. Where are the prices of similar products are twice
> priced in other countries.
>
> 5. e. Dubai has the lowest customs
> duty of 5% - India has 42% Pak 112% America 17% England 17% and
> surcharge2%
>
>
>
> oofff………
>
>
>
> Please do not react if some one coughs at Dubai . Bad sign for the residents
> and former residents….
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dr. B.N.Rajan PhD (Engg)
> Group Operating Officer
>
> GF Gamma Arunalaya Bldg
>
> Joseph II Street, Nanganallur
>
> Chennai 600114 TN India
>
> Tel: +91 44 65909909
>
> Fax: +91 44 24310927
>
> Cell: +91 979 99 314 99
>
> +91 988 44 456 89
>
> Email: Sales@LloydPower. Com
>
> www.LloydPower. Com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: gcesalem_alumnis_ in_gcc@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:gcesalem_
> alumnis_in_ gcc@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Shabir
> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 12:33 AM
> To: GCE in GCC
> Subject: [gcesalem_alumnis_ in_gcc] Fw: [gcesalem1982] Re:
> [Technical-Investor ] Dubai Default
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Friends,
>
>
>
> First of all let me thank all you, who have (and not) greeted for Eid al
> Adha.
>
>
>
> Was busy with the Eid and National Day celebration preparations of our
> Emirate.
>
>
>
>
>
> Pls see the chain of mails of individual analysis, on current economic
> situation of Dubai . Being just an ordinary onlooker of the construction
> market and not very keen in economic and market analysis, I would like to
> have opinions of our UAE/GCC friends, before giving my reply as a layman to
> friends back home.
>
>
>
>
>
> What I so far guessed is the market to pickup slowly until April 2010,
> stabilise for 6 months and any further boom (with same speed of 2005-2007)
> is not possible until early 2011. However, recent report of Dubai Default
> was in clandestine info and publishing it in newspapers is a shocker.
>
>
>
>
>
> Any comments?
>
>
>
> With regards
>
>
>
>
>
> Shabir Ahamed
> Tel: +97150 4908151
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Forwarded Message ----
> From: VasanthaMohan G Buddaan <bgvmohan@airtelmail .in>
> To: gcesalem1982@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Fri, November 27, 2009 1:56:10 PM
> Subject: [gcesalem1982] Re: [Technical-Investor ] Dubai Default
>
>
>
> Shabir may have something to say on this mail which I found to be very
> interesting. .......
>
> gv
>
> On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 2:19 PM, FLOYD JOHNY LEWIS <fjl24@yahoo. com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Friends
>
>
>
>
>
> Saw this coming a couple of years back when i lived in Dubai .
>
>
>
>
>
> Was residing in Dubai for almost 9-10 years.
>
>
>
>
>
> Moved back to home sweet home India almost 2 years back as i was expecting
> this crash then.
>
>
>
>
>
> Dubai was just a bubble waiting to break. They are good at marketing but
> once one bubble bursts then that is the begining.
>
>
>
>
>
> Since last year and half the ports were under utilized - as reduction in
> exports and imports.
>
>
>
>
>
> Just in case some of the members are not aware the facts about Dubai 's
> economy is as under:
>
>
>
>
>
> 1. Net importer of oil - so cannot sell oil. Oil prices effect Dubai itself
> - what an irony.
>
>
> 2. Was solely dependent on Tourism - any terrorist attacks in the
> neighbourhood meant chaos. Especially situation of Iran - just opposite to
> Dubai .
>
>
> 3. Was a hype created by the excellent marketing skills of HE Sheikh
> Mohammed.
>
>
> 4. Fully dependent on Abu Dhabi the capital of UAE for funds - Abu Dhabi is
> a net exporter of Oil.
>
>
> 5. Had opened up freehold land 4-5 years back for outsiders because of
> shortage of funds.
>
>
> 6. The stock markets are not well regulated - highly rigged - same a what
> once used to be the position in the BSE long time back.
>
>
> 7. Had opened up investments in the stock markets to all - due to shortage
> of internal resources to finance business.
>
>
> 8. All information is rigged and censored - even now we do not have actual
> figures.
>
>
> 9. Dubai had defaulted on the debts last year itself but was bailed out by
> Abu Dhabi - temporarily against sale of property in Dubai .
>
>
> 10. The debts are more than the GDP of Dubai.
>
>
> 11. Major banks that would be effected are local and MNC - none of the
> Indian banks would be affected as not allowed to operate directly from dubai
> .
>
>
> 12. Yes there will be job losses - Asians would be major suffers
>
>
> 13. Benefits of Dubai were more reaped by Pakistan and thus they would be
> more effected than India .
>
>
> 14. Yes India used to export items for consumption of Indians in Dubai more
> than for consumption of Goras over there.
>
>
> 15. Major source of imports were from China .
>
>
> 16. Inflow of forex from Dubai can impact India for sure.
>
>
>
>
>
> So - are we still doomed? well need to see - macro economic details dont
> reflect the same.
>
>
>
>
>
> Guys - India is the place of the future.
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks and Regards
>
>
> Floyd
>
>
>
>
> --- On Fri, 11/27/09, Ray Seth <rayseth@gmail. com> wrote:
>
>
>
> From: Ray Seth <rayseth@gmail. com>
> Subject: Re: [Technical-Investor ] Dubai Default
>
>
>
> To: Technical-Investor@ yahoogroups. com
>
> Date: Friday, November 27, 2009, 12:52 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> China has survived. They always built paper houses. :-)
>
> On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 11:15 AM, BALASUBRAMANIAM SRIRAM <bees2365@yahoo.
> co.in> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> In Tamil, there used to be a folklore which says empires will fall after
> building tall or monumental structures. They used to quote the Chola dynasty
> for that I saw that happening in Malaysia afteR Petronas Towers . Now in
> Dubai . When is China ?
>
>
>
>
>
> Sriram
>
> B.Sriram
> 4B, Skylark Apts,
> 6, Rutlandgate Fifth St .,
> Chennai-600006
> Ph:+91 44 28334849(Dir) /28332373( Board)
> Mobile :+91 98400 63145
> Email:bhsppt@gmail. com
>
> --- On Fri, 27/11/09, Sniper Trader <snipertrader@ gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Sniper Trader <snipertrader@ gmail.com>
> Subject: [Technical-Investor ] Dubai Default
> To: Technical-Investor@ yahoogroups. com
> Date: Friday, 27 November, 2009, 7:58 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Good Morning Working Drones -
>
>
>
>
> Today's news carries a series of unexpected and surprising headlines when
> the Dubai Government announced that Dubai World will ask creditors for a
> standstill agreement to extend the maturities of all debt repayments by
> Dubai World and its property unit Nakheel until May next year.
>
>
>
>
>
> Now the interesting thing here is that the bets on Dubai 's default (using
> CDS and other wall street toys) weigh in much higher than the actual
> default.
>
>
>
>
>
> What is also interesting is....the news was released on a US market
> holiday.
>
>
>
>
>
> This COULD have huge ramifications for the markets
>
>
>
>
>
> Equities will react....thats a no brainer...but the USD could strengthen..
> .putting further pressure on global mkts including commodities.
>
>
>
>
>
> The play book move would be what we saw when Lehman collapsed
>
>
>
>
>
> - USD strong
>
>
> - Equities Weak
>
>
> - Commodities Weak
>
>
>
>
>
> Somehow i feel, things will be slightly different this time.
>
>
>
>
>
> I am watching the CDS mkt space for more clues..looks like Greece is next!
>
>
>
>
>
> Cheers!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Trading at all skill levels evokes emotions that generate great illusions.
>
> Today's excitement won't move tomorrow's markets
>
> Don't let that small voice of ego tell you that you have special talents.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Head to the Daily Blob on Windows Live For more of what happens online
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Trading at all skill levels evokes emotions that generate great illusions.
Today's excitement won't move tomorrow's markets
Don't let that small voice of ego tell you that you have special talents.
------------------------------------
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